tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post2931115777971740291..comments2023-10-23T13:53:52.516-07:00Comments on SuperHero Lunchbox: Cast Off : Why Otalia is a FailureSnapperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03141538240915482048noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-12323309202516488012009-09-25T17:34:43.735-07:002009-09-25T17:34:43.735-07:00I know one thing I forgot to mention is that at th...I know one thing I forgot to mention is that at the last moment of the last show on Friday were credits rolling and after that the first time I ever saw the words The End at the end of a soap I watch. The End has been used pretty much exclusively by movies so this was a really, really, really long movie that just ended.<br /><br />Susan I can really see your point and feel your pain I know that there would have to be some sort of promise from whoever may attempt this sort of thing again that they would follow through.<br /><br />Sylvia in AnchorageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-82441537931283382752009-09-25T15:58:52.639-07:002009-09-25T15:58:52.639-07:00You were so spot on, snapper, about everything.
It...You were so spot on, snapper, about everything.<br />It was meant to be an old-fashioned love story but then it turned into a steaming pile of poo.<br />Yes, a stitch was dropped (and an important one at that). It could have been fixed right then and there but it was simply ignored. As if no one would ever notice. When all was said and done, the end product was wrapped up in used, ripped tissue paper barely being held together by dollar store tape and presented to us as "The Gift".<br />As Laurie stated, the desexualization of Otalia was such a step backward and a major slap in the face to lesbian relationships. To continually show all the het couples in SF making out in bedrooms (after some cookie feasting, no less), showing them half naked on the grass in a park (and they are still just kids, in my opinion!), and well heck, having them kiss and make out everywhere merely added to the frustration and insanity. If Otalia had progressed according to the classic formula for a successful coupling...I would be mourning their loss due to the cancellation of GL to this day.<br />Now, I'm just glad the torture is over and I can get back to my somewhat normal life.<br />It would have to be one heck of an honest, skilled and by the book knitter to ever get me to look at another scarf in the same way again.Susannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-58757609827640948722009-09-25T15:24:30.053-07:002009-09-25T15:24:30.053-07:00I don't knit but I get the metaphor of a dropp...I don't knit but I get the metaphor of a dropped stitch it's a good visual.<br /><br />I was one of the first of my friends to jump ship on The L Word because it didn't 'really' portray lesbian life. <br /><br />To say that I'm heartbroken about the dropped stitches of the Otalia story is too simple a metaphor. I feel like I have a dirty disease that has no cure like the one Phillip had the one with no name. And there is no way, not that even a transplant of any kind will cure.<br /><br />I stopped watching my other soaps because I couldn't even think about them on their own. <br /><br />Everything I've been doing for the last year has been focussed around Otalia and the fact that two straight women in a midwestern state smack in the bible belt of America were falling in love. It was beyond awesome, I told everyone I knew and thousands that I didn't know on my book lists about it and how huge this was. <br /><br />It's like a real member of my family has died and this now is the funeral and I don't even get to hug or be hugged by you all who are at this funeral with me. <br /><br />I don't know who is responsible for the wrecking of Otalia but I hope whoever it is that nixed even the tiniest bit of reality in a love relationship is left as bereaved by something as I am at this moment - for a very long time. <br /><br />I don't as a rule wish bad things for other people but in this case whoever did this not only hurt me but also the many viewers, who supported the Otlaia lesbian relationship as an opportunity to hold up a picture of the normalcy<br />of our lives as opposed to the seediness that a lot of people think we live. <br /><br />It cheated the straight people out of a learning experience about the fact that most gay people live life just like they do. <br /><br />Yes there are exceptions just like in the lives of straight people who have child molesters in their families or teenagers that they can't control or don't educate well enough to not get pregnant when caving into their physical natures. <br /> <br />Yes we have in our population people like on The L Word who don't care about anybody or anything but themselves. But they are the minority among us unlike child molesters and rapists who run rampant in the straight world. <br /><br />I supported Ellen Wheeler's attemt to save GL I tend to trust people like CC who praised EW for her efforts to save Guiding Light. If I were to believe her then it wasn't EW who nixed the natural intimacies that would have been there for a real lesbian couple but rather the execs at some other section of CBS commercial television land. <br /><br />So blame isn't working for me as a tool to decrease the grief I'm feeling at the loss of GL and the screwed upedness of the writing of the end of the Otalis story. While everyone else rode off into the sunset with a kiss or more than one kiss Otalia had to have their affection off stage, we were expected to imagine it. <br /><br />I can't believe all of the simultaneous emotions I'm feeling about this. One isn't bigger than the other because they are all very big. Right along side those hurts lives the anger that I, (and I do take this personally) feel at being played. I would be able to get to a place where I might be able to accept this deceit if there was a contiuation where down the road they could bring this story back and write into it the realisticness it deserves. <br /><br />But with no show at all there is no hope of GL ever being able to redeem itself as it has so many people in it's stories past. No itself will go down a wreck, a wreck that everyone witnessed with no hope of a miracle cure. <br /><br />I watch epesodes at the CBS web site and on youtube, at least I have those venues to watch my favorite scenes over and over. It's not the same as a continuing story but it's way, way better than nothing.<br /><br />I may be more able to speak of this rationally some time in the future but not right now, I'm too irrational, and poisoned to speak with viability.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-45730447509780333832009-09-23T10:28:20.236-07:002009-09-23T10:28:20.236-07:00I just have to disagree though that it doesn't...I just have to disagree though that it doesn't matter who is to blame. It can't fix the train wreck that Otalia became, but whoever was responsible needs to feel our gay, gay wrath. I mean, if they were worried about offending sensibilities with this big LESBO storyline and therefore avoided physical intimacy, they need to know they offended a whole different group and that it's not okay.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06482217352094348147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-25587686479798053202009-09-22T20:14:44.388-07:002009-09-22T20:14:44.388-07:00I was convinced that they were going to kiss in th...I was convinced that they were going to kiss in the gazebo scenes. If they followed the soap couple forumla, Natalia should have kissed Olivia either right before or right after she told her she loved her. A kiss would have been a way for the characters to know that this was not the love of casual friends. It would have been a way to tell the audience they were not just friends. <br />It wasn't just the kissing that was censored. They weren't allowed to be physically close. Certain words were taboo like lesbian, girlfriend, sex. They were never allowed to have another grand declaration of undying love. In the end, after having heard that Olivia was Francesca's mommie we were not allowed to see her in that role. Couldn't they have at least shown Olivia holding her daughter? That crucial mother/daugher moment was also censored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-12687655864701989502009-09-22T20:00:50.556-07:002009-09-22T20:00:50.556-07:00The difference with our interpretations is that I ...The difference with our interpretations is that I think the whole thing was still very salvageable upon Natalia's return. However, that point is mute. They didn't even begin to salvage it but sent in the wrecking crew. (I'm sorry that I am not a knitter so need different analogies...) Anyway, you clearly read the writing on the wall better than I - so I bow to your interpretation. It really ended up as a very unsatisfying mess.ramcduffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12575821484262062128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-47885326925022418232009-09-22T15:53:09.210-07:002009-09-22T15:53:09.210-07:00What's even more strange is that there was a d...What's even more strange is that there was a discussion between Olivia and Natalia about the eventual physical side of their relationship back in May or June, and though Olivia nobly said she could live without sex if necessary, Natalia assured her she wanted physical intimacy, too, at some point soon. This makes it sound as if there was an actual trajectory planned at one point. Maybe not extended scenes of the two women rolling around in sheets and making out, but certainly scenes showing romance and at least implying the two women have become intimate.<br /><br />P&G allowed this on ATWT when Luke and Noah finally got together. (Although it is ludicrous to portray two gay college-age men as waiting a year and half to do the deed; Luke and Noah weren't shown actually in bed, but they were shown in afterglow effect in conversation letting it be known they had been together in "that way."<br /><br />So where did the ball get dropped? It seems naive to think it was solely due to JL's maternity leave. Why did the story suddenly jump from "buildup for two women in love" to "whoops, no, let's just say they're a couple without actually showing it happen"? It's perplexing, and I assume we'll never know the whole story and which element (CBS, P&G, or Ellen Wheeler) was ultimately the decider.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241796091443881740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-17460502122878626792009-09-22T10:57:43.633-07:002009-09-22T10:57:43.633-07:00Otalia embarrassed me and made me uncomfortable as...Otalia embarrassed me and made me uncomfortable as a lesbian. That the story was set up as a relationship, a fully developed adult relationship that ended up without a NORMAL physical sexual component at this time in history is beyond disappointing. It is bizarre, ludicrous and a slap in the face to lesbian relationships.<br /><br />I agree with you that this was not progress, even if it started out as such. It was a giant step backward and very damaging, because by desexualizing Olivia and Natalia it ‘proved’ love between two women is only Victorian, chaste, pure, virginal. Safe. It treated lesbian sexuality as non-existent, and worse, unnecessary; that even a kiss in public, a kiss on the check for goodness sake, is not even normal. Olivia and Natalia were portrayed as happy just holding hands, wiping peanut butter from each other’s mouths, brushing away a stray strand of hair…ad nauseam. <br /><br />I like your knitting metaphor. So much good was dropped and unraveled such promise. I think the legacy of Otalia, when looked at objectively, when the emotions of projection (“well, they kissed off camera” or “did you see how O looked at N, you can tell they did the deed even if it wasn’t on screen”) lessen, we will look at this s/l and find some truth as to what it really was. Not all negative, but very much like a tease, a very sexual tease that doesn’t get satisfied. And that is not new, that is par for the course, and sadly, the one thing that could have made Otalia new, ground breaking, progress.Laurie @ RelevantObscurityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18130534477162451899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-35780122564257232032009-09-22T08:44:46.929-07:002009-09-22T08:44:46.929-07:00Yep, they definitely took the coward's way out...Yep, they definitely took the coward's way out. Rather then move forward, it was decided to leave Otalia treading water, and we all know how exhausting and frustrating that gets to be. The whole Otalia mess reminds me of the scene where Natalia pours out the bottle of champagne when she is packing up the celebratory dinner that never was. What a waste of something so good.ocean1bluenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-80202920559492413072009-09-22T07:09:41.313-07:002009-09-22T07:09:41.313-07:00Amen!!!!Amen!!!!neixanndhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05076116340523685688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1522232293231604653.post-79198117612327429242009-09-22T06:49:24.730-07:002009-09-22T06:49:24.730-07:00I'm at a loss at what to say, but this hits on...I'm at a loss at what to say, but this hits on everything that upset me with the Otalia pairing that 'mattered'. <br /><br />Yes there were missteps involving other characters and I even tried to talk myself into being okay with the portrayal if it made one person think more openly about GLBT individuals. <br /><br />Until my friend said, "but they can just ignore it because there was no kiss, there was no intimacy. So they could just say they were really good friends that decided to live together to raise a child and that they love each other, but they are not IN love with each other because there is no physical intimacy." <br /><br />It was at that point that my shoulders slumped and all that hope, hope, hope I had put forth deflated. <br /><br />Because she was right. The beautiful love story in the eyes of someone who wants to ignore it can just be platonic. <br /><br />And that to me, is the most upsetting part... <br /><br />Also - I really enjoyed the knitting reference, even as a crochet-er. <br /><br />BrenB Fuhrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592478871455587623noreply@blogger.com